The Duration of the Israelite Sojourn In Egypt

This does not answer my question.

The Bible names the generations from Jacob to Moses. There are only four generations.

Jacob had a son called Levi. He entered Egypt along with the rest of the family(the total number is 70 I think). Reading other parts of the Bible we learn that Levi already begotten Kohath in Canaan(please explain). Kohath is one of those who are mentioned as travelling to Egypt along with Jacob. Bible does not say how old Levi was but he can't be more than 14 years older than Joseph(he was 39 at the time so Levi can't be more than 53) and Levi was not the first born.

So this makes 430 years in Egypt only even more unlikely.

Kohath begot Amram and Amram begot Moses. And the exodus happened when Moses was 80 years old.

Kohath was not born when Joseph went into slavery in Egypt. Joseph lived in Egypt for 22 years before the rest of the family moved there. So Kohath can't be more than 20 years old at the time.

They spent 215 years in Egypt. Take away 80 years from that and you get the birth of Moses. That is 135 years between the 20th year of Kohath's life and the birth of Moses.

Joseph was 110 years old when he died. He was 39 when Jacob moved to Egypt. The Israelites only became slaves after Joseph died. That is sometime after 71 years after Israel moved to Egypt. So the Israelites became slaves sometime between the 71st and 135th year of their sojourn in Egypt.

Kohath begot Amram when he was 30(I am speculating now) and Amram begot Moses when he was 30, add 80 years and you get around 215 years.

Do you see the problem if you believe there are 430 years between Jacob moving to Egypt and the exodous?

David - 7/4/2008 5:30:02 AM

Furthermore Jochebed Moses's mother is the sister of Kohath and her father is Levi. Levi died at the age 137.

Assuming Levi begat Jochebed at the age of 137 and Levi went to Egypt at the age of 51 then Israel were in Egypt for 86 years when Moses' mother was born.

Moses was the youngest of Jochebed. And woman go through the menopause about the age of 45. If Jochebed had Moses at the age of 45 that would be 131 years in Egypt.

Moses was 80 years old at the exodus. 131 + 80 equals 211.

Please explain.

David - 7/4/2008 6:21:19 AM

So was it 615 or 430 years?

Paul says it was only 430 years.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

This covenant was made with Abraham in Genesis 12. It was another 215 years before they went to Egypt so was it 615 or 430 years?

David - 7/4/2008 6:43:43 AM

The 430 years start when Abraham enters the land of Canaan. It starts from Genesis 12.

Is Genesis 46 and Exodus 6 wrong? Or are you wrong. Other parts of the Bible do not contradict each other.

It is very simple. Canaan was considered part of Egypt.

David - 7/4/2008 7:29:53 AM

.“we know from the Bible that the Israelites arrived in Egypt some 200 >years before their Exodus.” This is incorrect. The length of the Sojourn as >recorded in the Bible was 430 years (Ex 12:40).

Actually you are wrong. There are only FOUR generations between Jacob and Moses. The Bible even names them and tells us how old they were when they died in Exodus 6. See here:

Exd 6:16 And these [are] the names of the sons of LEVI according to their generations; Gershon, and KOHATH, and Merari: and the years of the life of LEVI [were] an hundred thirty and seven years(137).

Exd 6:18 And the sons of KOHATH; AMRAM, and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of KOHATH [were] an hundred thirty and three years(133).

Exd 6:20 And AMRAM took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and MOSES: and the years of the life of AMRAM [were] an hundred and thirty and seven years(137).

How can FOUR generations last 430 years? Did they wait until they were well into their 100s to have children? I don't think so.

The 430 years of Exodus 12:40 is explained by looking at the Greek translation of the Old Testament. It says "The children of Israel and their fathers dwelt in the land of Canaan and Eygpt four hundred and thirty years". They spent 215 years in Canaan. Then because of a famine the Israelites moved to Egypt and dwelt there 215 years and then came to Sinia(Horeb) and then spent 40 years in the wilderness.

David - 7/4/2008 8:12:04 AM

Explain how Levi's daughter can be the mother of Moses? if Israel were in Egypt 430 years?

Was it 615 or 430 years from the promise been given to Abraham to the law been given at Sinai?

The land of Canaan was considered Egypt.

The 430 years of Exodus 12:40 includes the sojourn of the patriarchs in Canaan as well as their stay in Egypt. Since in the time of Moses, Palestine was part of the Egyptian Empire, it is not strange to find an author of that period including Canaan in the term "Egypt." The translators of the Septuagint, knowing that the 430 years included the sojourn of the patriarchs in Canaan, made this point clear in their rendering of this passage: "And the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan, was four hundred and thirty years." An additional corroboration of the interpretation of the 430 years given above is found in the prophecy that the fourth generation of those who had entered Egypt would leave it(Genesis 15:16), and its recorded fulfillment in Exodus 6:16-20.

David - 7/9/2008 7:44:29 AM

The DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls) match the Masoretic Text with the shorter reading of the variant (Egypt only). Further, the Vulgate, which was translated from an early Hebrew text, also contains the shorter reading of only Egypt. The Samaritan Torah contains the longer reading, adding Canaan, but this text is known to be of lower quality and have several errors due to theological difference and inferior textual transmission.
"Egypt" : DSS, MT, LXX (certain texts), Vulgate
"Egypt and Canaan" : LXX (certain texts), Samaritan Torah

The better transmitted, more reliable, and older texts favor the shorter variant of "Egypt." Additionally, in textual criticism, the shorter readings are usually favored. Thus, based only on textual criticism, the shorter variant supporting 430 years in Egypt is highly favored.

MT - 7/9/2008 8:30:22 AM

I know the Exodus Code is [wrong], but Simcha is right in placing the arrival of the Isrealites around 200 years before the Exodus. -- I did the research myself.

In my blog I show that to place the arrival of the Isrealites to Egypt 430 before the Exodus in the 19th century would be a historical blunder.

That is, Genesis 41: 41-43 says Pharaoh put Joseph in a charriot. -- But the Hyksos that arrived later and took over the capital of Egypt in the 17th century BC were the ones that introduced the charriot!!! Hence the belief that Joseph entered Egypt in the 19th century BC is wrong!!

The more accurate date for Jacob's arrival to Egypt is in the 17th century B.C. in the time of the Hyksos, 215 years after God made a covenant with Abraham, and another 215 years before the Exodus.

Even the very math of the timeline of the Patriarchs supports this:

"Genesis 12: 4-5 says that Abram (later called Abraham) migrated from Haran to Canaan when he was seventy-five years old. He was one-hundred years old when his son Issac was born (Genesis 21: 1). — Then when Issac was sixty when Jacob was born (Genesis 25: 24-26). Abraham would have been 160 at the time. And when Jacob arrived in Egypt on Joseph’s invitation and was presented to the King he was 130 years old (Genesis 47: 9).

"So this means that there was a gap of 215 years from the time Abraham first went to Canaan to when Jacob arrived in Egypt. So, by subtracting that number from 1867 we find that Jacob arrived in Egypt in 1652 B.C., durring the rule of the Hyksos kings, and another 215 years before the Exodus of Moses in 1437 B.C. Add it up and it comes to 430 years. So, it appears that the writter of the Exodus intended the reading to be “in Canaan and Egypt.”

Also, this is supported by Josephus' account:

They left Egypt in the month Xanthicus, on the fifteenth day of the lunar month; four hundred and thirty years after our forefather Abraham came into Canaan, but two hundred and fifteen years only after Jacob removed into Egypt. (Antiquities of the Jews 2, 15, 2)

I know several people already know this, but I myself found this out independently and I was surprised when I did.
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Ed. note: Website address removed per ABR comment rules.

Kris Smith - 7/9/2008 10:43:03 AM

Your argument is a logical fallacy. You used circular reasoning to arrive at your conclusion. You affirmed 1867 B.C. as the date Abraham arrives in Canaan, but your evidence for this is 215 years in Canaan + 215 years in Egypt, to arrive at the conclusion that the Israelites dwelt 215 years in Canaan and 215 years in Egypt. Where do you derive your date of 1867 B.C. for Abraham's 75th year?
Further, the Israelites/sons of Israel were not sons of Israel before Jacob/Israel, thus it would be incorrect to say that Abraham, who was an ancestor of Jacob, was one of the "sons of Israel" and his dwelling time in Canaan counts as the dwelling time of the Israelites. Additionally, Joseph is an Israelite, and his dwelling in Egypt counts towards the total. You do not factor this into your equation. Instead, you only count from the time that Jacob, now a very old man, first arrives in Egypt, when one of his sons (Joseph) had been living there previously.

The remark about chariots should not be used as basis for your argument of Joseph living in Egypt during the 17th century B.C. That chariots were not used there prior to the Hyksos is an argument from silence. Although they may have not been used in war, they could have been used for transportation, as it is know that chariots were used in Mesopotamia as early as 3000 B.C.

Josephus was obviously using an LXX translation that read "Egypt and Canaan."

The main problem is that you do not deal with the textual support in favor of the reading "Egypt" as opposed to "Egypt and Canaan." The fact remains that the older, the superior, and the majority of the texts contain the reading "Egypt."

MT - 7/11/2008 5:48:23 AM

I'm not sure if anything i put here will help, i'm trying to work out if the sojourn was 215 years or 430 years. All versions give gods covenant with abraham after he left Ur(?), so it is logical to assume that the period of sojourn should start at this point, not having the math at hand, by calculating through to the date of the exodus, it would favour a time span of 430 years, the problem arises if the sojourn represents time actual time spent in egypt( obviously ignoring the possibility that canaan is considered part of egypt. As to the genealogy issue, i'm still pulling my hair out trying to work out how four generations pass from levi to moses, but ten pass from joseph to joshua.

michael - 7/12/2008 4:58:16 PM

To MT,

You said, "The remark about chariots should not be used as basis for your argument of Joseph living in Egypt during the 17th century B.C. That chariots were not used there prior to the Hyksos is an argument from silence. Although they may have not been used in war, they could have been used for transportation, as it is know that chariots were used in Mesopotamia as early as 3000 B.C. "

No, it isn't an argument from silence, but from fact! -- History says that the most fundamental weapon for the Hyksos during their invasion of Egypt was the chariot! -- If the Egyptians indeed had the chariot as well then this would not have been the case.

Also, your argument that the Egyptians could have at least had the chariot for transportation intead for war is an insult to the intelligence of the ancient Egyptians. -- The Egyptians were not stupid. If they had the chariot at all, whether the original intention were just for transportation or not, they would have been able to even the odds and reduce the effctiveness of the Hyksos invasion. They would have been able to use them for war. But history shows they didn't. Logic also dictates the same.

And as for your argument that since the Mesepatamians had the charriot so therefore the Egyptians may have had them to, that is just wishfull thinking. You'll have to produce more evidence than that. -- That isn't even evidence.

Also, the New Testament itself supports that the 430 began with Abraham and not with Jacob or Joseph.

Galatians 3: 17 says that 430 passed FROM THE TIME God made his covenant with Abraham TO THE TIME Moses received the law!! This justifies the fact that the proper reading of Exodus 12: 40 should say "Egypt and Cannan" instead of just Egypt.

You also said, "Josephus was obviously using an LXX translation that read "Egypt and Canaan.""

Maybe so. But as mentioned, Paul (in Galatans 3: 17) agrees with the reading. Are you then going to say that Paul is wrong? Remember, to say so is the same as saying the Bible is fallable. And As a Bible believing Chistian I cannot accept that.

It is easier to accept that the original reading of Exodus 12:40 said "Egypt and Cannan" and that the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Massoret texts made an oversight.

And to answer your question about my justification of placing Abraham's 75th year in 1867 B.C., I used 1 Kings 6: 1 which says the temple of Solomon was built in the 4th year of Solomon as king and 480 years after the Exodus. -- The "Encyclopedia of the Orient" places his first year in 961 BC, therefore take away 4 years and we end up with 957 BC. I then add 480 and end up with 1437 BC as the year of the Exodus. Then I add another 430 (the time Israel spent in Cannan and Egypt before the Exodus) and come up with 1867.

Finally, you say,"Joseph is an Israelite, and his dwelling in Egypt counts towards the total. You do not factor this into your equation. Instead, you only count from the time that Jacob, now a very old man, first arrives in Egypt, when one of his sons (Joseph) had been living there previously."

You are missing the fact that Joseph's arrival would have been during the last few years of the first 215 years. Jacob's arrival began the second 215 years. So, actually, I made sure to factor everything.

Kris Smith - 8/11/2008 2:51:49 AM